TDC HIY 10 hp
#11
(17/06/2018, 09:17 PM)swedevaux Wrote: Last summer I bought a 1947 HIY 10 hp. It runs quite well, but after a couple of miles the engine misfires, and it is getting worse after say 10-15 miles. I have noticed an excessive end play in the distributor axle, and some axial play, so I intend to remove the distributor. The Shop Manual says that first I should turn the engine “until the steel ball embedded in the flywheel is seen to be opposite to the pointer …etc.”  But as far as I can see there is no steel ball on the flywheel. Or a hole where the steel ball should have been “embedded”. Or a line indicating TDC.
 
Before removing the distributor I,d like to know: What is the initial (or basic?) ignition setting? How about 4º before TDC? Or 8º before?

Hi swedevaux,
If you need a new distributor or refurbishment, this link might help http://www.distributordoctor.com/

Les
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#12
(23/06/2018, 09:19 AM)Bish Wrote:
(22/06/2018, 09:50 PM)BUGAS03 Wrote:
(22/06/2018, 08:58 PM)Bish Wrote: Hi Bugaso3,
If and when you replace your distributor maybe this link may help you locate a replacement  http://www.distributordoctor.com/
By the way I enjoyed your videos

Les

HI Thanks …

But … replace ???!!!!    why ??!!!!

It was not expected or estimated 

Sorry Bugaso3 my post was meant for Swedevaux  and composed in a hurry.
Apologies Les
 

There are a new vídeo  … Smile


HI

Thanks (a lot); I will need nuts (full and unc tread) and bolts, and washers (all type and material - steel, cooper, rubber)

At this moment I have no material list.

My distributor cap is not clean as I want, but was working; perhaps I will one and his plastic nuts.

There are no reason to apologize, we love old vauxhalls and we want to see them beautiful …
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#13
(18/06/2018, 10:46 AM)Chas Wrote: Set you TDC for number one manually regardless of distributor position.
Piston at top after exhaust valve closes on number one.
You should see where the ball location or the hole if it's missing.
Check position of rotor, you may be 180 deg. out as Bugas03 says in previous reply.

Steel ball indicates 2 deg. BTDC.
At idle (approx. 400 RPM) this ball should be static at the pointer using a strobe - If you can get it to a lower RPM all the better.
Advance is taken over by vacuum (can start at around 400RPM)  and mechanical means within distributor.
Your distributor should be a DKZ4A-P27 @ 18 deg. crank advance.
Make sure someone has not fitted a DKZ4A-P31 which has 27 deg. crank advance (as in the 12hp)


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#14
(25/06/2018, 08:52 PM)swedevaux Wrote: Copied thread from 'Tech info'

I have noticed the new thread “10hp & 12hp Timing”. Very good. But I still have some questions, the main question is: If the flywheel ring gear actually has no timing ball, what is the best way to manually find the TDC on #1 piston?
 
Despite good advice from you and BUGAS03 I must state: There is no ball on the flywheel ring gear or a hole after a missing ball. If there is a mark on the flywheel, like the one on the picture from BUGAS03, it is hidden and not possible to see. The picture from BUGAS03 is really excellent! Not only that it is clearer than the picture in the Shop Manual (Fig. C14), it also shows a notch on the ring gear corresponding to the mark on the flywheel which I guess stands for the TDC.
 
My guess is that someone has replaced the original flywheel, or maybe only the ring gear. According to the Master Parts Catalogue the ring gear for H, I and JC models 1938-48 had the timing ball, but for LIX, LBX and PC models 1948-52 the ring gear had no timing ball. Even if there is a difference between the flywheels before and after1948 (“recessed frt. face” vs. “’solid’ frt. face”), I can imagine that the later flywheels fitted the earlier engines.
 
If someone replaced the original flywheel (or the ring gear) with a flywheel without a timing ball, it may explain some other issues that I have noticed so far. My guess is that these issues are connected.
 
1.     The distributor was not in correct position. Before I moved the distributor, I turned the engine until spark on #1 cylinder. I made a small dot on the ring gear, the place where the ball should have been - if the distributor had been in the correct position and the vacuum regulator on zero, right? After that I turned the engine to set #1 piston in TDC manually, using different simple methods using different kinds of sticks, in order to get as close as possible without special tools. At TDC on #1 and the rotor arm pointing at the spark plug cable to #1, the flywheel should have been in position 2 degrees, or approximately 2/3 of the distance between two teeth, after passing my dot, right? But it was not, it was approximately seven teeth after my dot, that is 6 1/3 teeth after the position of the ring gear where the TDC corresponding to my dot should have been. 6 1/3 teeth is approximately 19 degrees retard! How could the engine start? How could it run so nice?
2.     The vacuum regulator was set at R4 when I bought this car. I guess “4” means 4 degrees. My first thought was, that any retard setting seemed strange, as I guess that modern petrol (unleaded 95) is “High grade petrol” compared to 1947 standards.
3.     I have tried to set the vacuum regulator at zero, but it is not possible. When I turn the handle to advance, it stops at R2. Feels like there were no more threads. Or something in the construction that stops further movement.
4.     Spark on #1 cylinder occurred and still occurs when the rotor arm is in a position like half past four o’clock, see picture. Is that correct? The figure in the Shop Manual (Fig.C15) is not very clear, but to me it seems as the spark plug cable from #1 cylinder goes to half past ten, maybe half past seven.
5.     When I tried to find the TDC with a stick, it seemed as if the piston top was not flat (as it should be) but sloping.
 
Add to this, that among all things that I do not know about this car is if the distributor is installed correctly.
 
At this point I feel I must remind you: Despite these issues the engine starts well, most times on first try, and it runs well, except for the irregular misfiring when cruising in 45-50 kilometres per hour (30 mph), after engine has been warm.
 
The issues listed above raise a couple of questions.
 
·        Can it be that the setting of the vacuum regulator at R4 has been made in order to compensate the incorrect setting of the distributor?
 
·        Can it be that someone has manipulated the vacuum regulator in order to compensate for the incorrect setting of the distributor? And that this manipulation causes that it is not possible to set it at zero or advance?
 
·        Can it be that the spark plug cables has been installed in another way then they should, in order so compensate for the incorrect setting of the distributor?
 
·        Can it be that the distributor has been installed one tooth wrong? How many teeth are there on the driving gear, and how many degrees does one tooth make? Is one degree on the driving gear two degrees on the timing? Or at wrong engine stroke, that is 180 degrees, +/- one tooth?
 
·        If the piston tops are sloped, not flat, what impact can it have on timing etc.?
 
As you understand I wish to sort out all issues. I appreciate every good advice, even if it raises more possible issues.
 
Again, the most important question is what the best way is to manually find the TDC on #1 piston, with a precision that is good enough to compensate the new standard setting – if needed - with the vacuum regulator?
 
What about the misfiring? In my first post I did not mention that the irregular running reminds of how it feels when the car is just beginning to run out of petrol.
 
In the thread DX Misfire I found an interesting post from Velox, saying that air leak the carburettor could be a reason. I checked the two screws holding the carburettor. They were not well tightened, so I tightened them maybe 1/3-1/2 turn, maybe a little more. Have not tested on the road yet. I have to wait until I have succeeded with the timing issues.
OK, in answer to the above:
Without having a prolonged script delving into a load of technicalities and none relevant aspects, this should give you some idea as how to eliminate your problems.

On early H engines the 'UC' mark was only on the ring gear, later models had the mark on the flywheel.
Looks like the ring gear on your engine has been changed and the timing marks have not been transferred to the flywheel.
As I have said, in situations such as this - start from the beginning,
Remove all spark plugs and rocker cover.
Remove distributor complete.

Easiest way to determine TDC (with head on) is to have a piece of aluminium of 2mm thickness by 5mm wide and about 100mm long.
At one end bend at 90 deg. so it's about 6mm long.
Rotate engine so the number 1 piston is at its uppermost position after the inlet valve has closed.
Insert alloy feeler (about 25mm) into combustion chamber with the 90 deg. leg facing down, you should now have a telltale lever on top of the piston extending out through the spark plug hole. It should be about level too.
With a light finger pressure under the feeler and using a spanner on the front pulley (more accurate movement) you can see TDC position when you turn crank either way of TDC.
If you want to be more accurate you can put a magnetic dial gauge on the head, in contact with the feeler to determine TDC.
Mark flywheel for TDC through aperture - I use a Dremel tool cutter for both flywheel and aperture then fill the mark with "Tippex" correction pen fluid.

After you have established TDC you can fit the distributor - while it's out of the engine it would be advantageous to check the mechanical advance/retard weights/springs and ensure the vacuum diaphragm is in good order, and of course, set the points gap. Set the micro adjuster to zero.

FYI. 
One flywheel tooth represents 3 Deg. approximately.
One distributor gear tooth represents 27.5 deg. approximately.

Let me know if I missed something.
Reassemble and start engine, strobe time ignition.
Regards.
Chas.

A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. A optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty.
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#15
Thanks! Your detailed instruction for making a feeler gauge is exactly what I was hoping for! Seems to give much better precision than my rough attempts with different kinds of sticks!
 
You write that “one distributor gear tooth represents 27.5 deg. approximately.” I guess you mean 27,5 deg. on timing? If so, my guess is that one tooth advance together with R4 on the vacuum regulator has compensated the incorrect timing, and made the engine run quite well, with modern petrol.
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#16
(26/06/2018, 09:02 PM)swedevaux Wrote: Thanks! Your detailed instruction for making a feeler gauge is exactly what I was hoping for! Seems to give much better precision than my rough attempts with different kinds of sticks!
 
You write that “one distributor gear tooth represents 27.5 deg. approximately.” I guess you mean 27,5 deg. on timing? If so, my guess is that one tooth advance together with R4 on the vacuum regulator has compensated the incorrect timing, and made the engine run quite well, with modern petrol.

You will be better off forgetting the use of distributor gear teeth in timing the engine.

Having said that, remember that when fitting the distributor, allow one tooth out on rotor position for the turn in gear meshing.
Even if you are one tooth out you could still time on number one but the distributor body would be in a different position.

When distributor is in it's location (within clamp) and you are ready to get the contacts opening for number one 2 deg. TDC, ensure the micro is at zero.
Regards.
Chas.

A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. A optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty.
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